Foot in Mouth Disease

[ostarella]

Okay - did it again. Going head to head with...on the list (re Brainstorming)

God, am I a glutton for punishment, or what  :P

Comments

[bevimoo.livejournal.com]

I don't think either of you said anything out of turn, you just disagree with one another. :)

I'm torn on the issue, to be honest. On the one hand, it would be nice to work out plotting issues freely, and to have a place to do that. On the other, knowing what I'm like, if I saw someone else do it and I thought it sounded a little like something I was working on, I wouldn't write my story. I really like posting my WIPs here, because the majority of people that comment on my work are here anyway! But ultimately, I think people will brainstorm on the group, and it should be interesting to see the development of ideas, the way they bounce between people and grow into something more like a finished story. :)

[beckyblack]

But this time Huffy is on your side. :-)

I'll be jumping in on this later today, I could't believe all the posts about it when I did my breakfast time email check!

[ostarella.livejournal.com]

Well, it seems to me that most people want to have it - but if some people have their way, it would get so complicated and regulated it would die on the vine. Good God.

[billy-shriner.livejournal.com]

LOL! I actually thought you were talking about "Foot and Mouth" disease... drrr!

I don't have time now, but I will have to go and check this out later.

To be honest, I prefer brainstorming over here, with a select few ;o)

[ostarella.livejournal.com]

Well, that's the thing. If people don't want to do it on list, it's not like a prerequisite to posting a more developed story. But we've got 200 plus members on that list - how many of them would love to start writing but don't know how to go from bunny to plot to story? Or have an idea they'd love to pursue but can't get past one sticky point? I myself have often wished I could say, well, I want to do this, but I'm not sure how to get from here to there, unless I did this - would that work? I just hate to see that opportunity thrown out the window because of, frankly, paranoia. :P

[billy-shriner.livejournal.com]

you raise a good point actually (and if I get time I'll try to comment on the ATSB)

I suppose some of the reason behind only *brainstorming* or sharing a bunny with my select few, is because of paranoia and confidence.

I might not have posted if I hadn't become friends with JFM before going to the list. She was the one who kinda *converted* me, and pursuaded me to write (or post what I'd written).

If you don't have those *friends* then the list would be the perfect opportunity to discuss bunnys.

p.s. love your new LJ look ;o)

[billy-shriner.livejournal.com]

also, I suppose the good thing about discussing your bunnies over here, is that it's recorded in your live journal. Before Live Journal (which is all Ani's fault!!!! damn I'm addicted to LJ) JFM and I use to just email each other...usually we'd discuss bunnies in between discussing Lost or Torchwood! ;o)

[ostarella.livejournal.com]

SEE? LOL

Seriously, though, so many people I've "talked to" on the list would like to post, or start, but they really do have this idea that the story has to be 1) a story, and 2) almost publish-perfect before they should put it on the list. And that's just wrong, to me.

[billy-shriner.livejournal.com]

Since being on the list for a bit now (actually it's way over a year...I started writing in 2006...scary!!!) I realise that it doesn't have to be *perfect*. In fact I do put them on there, to perfect them ;o) you know what I mean ;o) (Gosh if I hadn't put FWs on there as a WIP I would never have got Amy into a drugged state!!!!)

But that's a little because I've taken a leaf out of JFM's book and seen how she does things. It totally makes sense to put them on the board as a WIP and get comments and go away and edit (or addit - that's my word and I'm using it ::g::) - I'd be naive to not put my stories on as a WIP - they always need some changes/editing ;o) AND generally most of the stories posted on there do.

But for someone new, I can see what you are saying. Although, we have had some put stuff up there, thinking it IS almost publish-perfect and not really accepted the comments, because they do think it's somewhere like the Archive and ff.net

Do you think all 200 members are still on there reading though? Imagine the amount of comments we'd have to catch up on if they all posted? I know when I first joined the board I was like WTF?

[ostarella.livejournal.com]

Although, we have had some put stuff up there, thinking it IS almost publish-perfect and not really accepted the comments, because they do think it's somewhere like the Archive and ff.net

I'm not sure what you mean there...? I know she-who-shall-not-be-named made mention of my posting a story to ff.net while also posting to the list, but that's a normal thing for me - once a chapter's been critiqued and I've edited it to where I'm satisfied, why not?

I doubt very much if there are 200+ active members any more; a lot of them probably aren't even lurking, except to check out if their favorite author is posting something. Something that always made me wonder - why keep them on if they don't *ever* contribute, even to a discussion? Part of that "advance printing" thing I mentioned. Oh well.

[billy-shriner.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure what you mean there...?

There hasn't been many, but a there have been a couple. New writers...post, get comments which have been, IMO, well constructed to say "er this needs some work" and we never see the next chapters. They dissappear off the face of the earth.

I find it weird, that even those that don't write stories, don't even contribute to the discussions, even as a reader POV.

[ostarella.livejournal.com]

post, get comments which have been, IMO, well constructed to say "er this needs some work" and we never see the next chapters.

Oh, okay - yeah. Which is too bad. I don't know if they get mad and flounce off, or if they misunderstand the process and think they can't write because there's editing to do. :-(

As to the contributing, yeah, it's not good. I mean, what's the point of having 200 some members if most are just sitting there? It's like having 12 cars in the drive, but 10 of them are junkers. It's not like they'd have to get involved in every discussion or comment on every story - but they should do *something*.

[billy-shriner.livejournal.com]

I think it happens on a lot of Forums, but that one, to actually view the list you've got to be a member, I just can't believe that someone hasn't got something to say about *something* on there.

Ah well.

[ostarella.livejournal.com]

Well, I "lost" Huffy. ;-)

I really do see the merits of betas and gathering a small group to discuss stuff - I also know how difficult it is to find such people. Look at the list of betas in the file section. Look at us - trying to write our own stories and help each other out, and dealing with RL, too. So far it seems to be working but then holidays come along, or summer vacations, etc etc.

Amazing how good ideas can take a left turn along the way...But we'll see what happens. (shakes head)

[beckyblack]

I think especially for the lurkers who don't say much they might find it easier to work onlist since they don't "know" any of the other members that well, could feel shy of asking anyone specific.

I can see some of the potential problems, well everything potentially has problems, but it doesn't seem like it could lead to anything all that bad.

[ostarella.livejournal.com]

I can see some of the potential problems, well everything potentially has problems, but it doesn't seem like it could lead to anything all that bad.

Exactly. I don't think there are insurmountable problems. The old mountain out of a molehill...

[ostarella.livejournal.com]

Well, I've been asked not to post any more on the subject.

My bad.

[bevimoo.livejournal.com]

Jesus, that's ridiculous!

The whole point of lists and forums is that anyone and everyone has the opportunity to say what they like. On a good list or forum, a well moderated one, all it means is you get to say what you like politely. I've run or moderated enough very large (4,000 to 20,000 member) forums to know how it works.

I'm genuinely sorry that you felt the need to resign from the list. You definately won't be on your own over here.

I feel very, very lucky that the three of you post over here. You're all very talented and I have to say I've learned a lot from all of you, and benefit greatly from all of your advice. I only wish I could offer more constructive help myself in return.

You won't be abandoned over here, Shadow, never fear. :)

[ostarella.livejournal.com]

The whole point of lists and forums is that anyone and everyone has the opportunity to say what they like.

That's kinda what I thought, too, but...

Life's just too damn short to put up with that. I took some time off before, and thought I'd stayed away long enough for everyone to cool off, but apparently not.

But thanks, Bev and all - at least *somebody* likes me (sniff)

LOL

[bevimoo.livejournal.com]

We got your back, honey! :D

[ostarella.livejournal.com]

Sent Pam and Fingers my resignation from the list. I can't deal with that woman any more. Not after the email she sent me.

I like it better over here anyway. :-)

[beckyblack]

Aw, man. Now I feel bad, since I started the Brainstorming subject. :-(

[ostarella.livejournal.com]

You shouldn't feel bad at all - we had discussed it here, after all. She and I just don't see eye to eye on things, and unfortunately, she uses her position to get away with things that mere members aren't allowed to. I mean, I dared to disagree with her, and I should've known better.

JUST DON'T ABANDON ME HERE!!!!!

LOL

[beckyblack]

JUST DON'T ABANDON ME HERE!!!!!

Heh, don't worry, I'm married to Live Journal now. :D

[billy-shriner.livejournal.com]

me too! It's all Ani's fault!!!!

I can't believe you were asked NOT to post any more on the subject! Bloody hell! I haven't even had time to read the topic...and I should be going to bed now! really I should.

Well, they've lost someone who really does contribute to that list... I'm just soooo glad you're on LJ too ;o)

[ostarella.livejournal.com]

If she'd asked nicely, or hadn't written *books* on the subject herself, I might have been okay with it. Might have. But the way she "spoke" to me in her email...I don't need that. Nobody does, but until they quit mollycoddling her rudeness with "Oh, that's just the way she is" she'll keep doing it.

Bleh. Enough of her. I'll keep opening my big mouth over here - can't stop me from that! (Aren't you soooo happy to hear that? LOL)

[billy-shriner.livejournal.com]

If she'd asked nicely, or hadn't written *books* on the subject herself,

Oh we know she can write *books* ;o)

I kinda feel that I want to post something, because I really do feel you contribute to that list. You practically comment on every story on there, meaning that every author gets some well written advice. And I think it's a real shame, because now they've lost it. ...but it might come out wrong, and then I'll get kicked off the list too! lol!

But on the up side...we have your undivided attention over here! lol!

[ostarella.livejournal.com]

Oh, yeah - you want to watch what you say. And God forbid, don't bring me into it! Those target-on-back things may transfer LOL

[billy-shriner.livejournal.com]

No I'll probably leave it. Just it's a real shame...and I can't believe they don't value your opinion enough to let you resign!!!!

[ostarella.livejournal.com]

Well, I see the new "guideline" for brainstorming is out now. If that doesn't scare the bejeezus out of anyone thinking of getting onlist help, I don't know what will. I also liked the reference to the "database" of beta readers - oh well. We could always let people know about LJ. Maybe start a Journal just for that. Something to think about.