ostarella: (Default)
[personal profile] ostarella
What do writers of fanfic like to do most? That should be obvious - take the characters they know and love from a television show, movie, or book and put them in new situations, or expand on canon experiences. What do readers of fanfic like most? To read about the characters they know and love in these new situations.

So why, in God's name, do so many writers completely ignore who the characters are?

I'm speaking, specifically, about A-Team fanfic, but this can be asked of any - Harry Potter, Buffy, Star Trek. The fandom doesn't matter. The genre - het, gen, or slash - doesn't matter. The story doesn't matter.

The characters do.

The CHARACTERS do.

We love our characters. We love the nuances, the experiences, the unanswered questions. We love how they react to circumstances. We love the interaction between them.

So why do so many authors completely ignore them when they write? And I do mean, ignore them. In TAT, the guys are Special Forces soldiers who have been through war, POW camps, being chased by the military for years - they face bullets, bombs and fists as if in a game of basketball. They thrive on living on the edge. So what do so many writers do to them?

They make them cry.

Now, crying isn't all bad. Given extreme enough circumstances, any man will break down. But a familiar scenario is that one of them gets the crap beaten out of them, and one of the others sits down and cries in anguish.

Who the hell is that guy?

This happens in all genres - het, gen, slash. ALL genres. The author wants to tell a story, and they use the characters in their fandom to tell it. Great. Fantastic. But suddenly the characters are doing things and saying things that they never, ever said on the show, in the movie, or on the pages of the book. Doing and saying things they would never dream of in canon.

These are not the characters we know and love and want to read about in new situations.

These are strangers.

These are OCs.

Of course, one has to make an allowance for slash. And I know - there are definitions of slash ad nauseum. For my purposes, we're talking about our characters having a sexual relationship with another character of the same sex. In slash, by this definition, the guys are acting out of character. We accept that, because of the genre. We accept that. But that doesn't mean that our Special Forces guys suddenly become stereotypical fairies. It means that *our* guys, the characters we know and love are having a homosexual relationship that needs to be explored - as *our* guys. (And for heaven's sake, admit that it *is* a homosexual relationship, and leave the homophobic "we're not gay, just having a same-sex relationship" at the door.)

What do writers of fanfic like to do most? Take the characters they know and love and put them in new situations. What do readers of fanfic like most? To read about the characters they know and love in these new situations.

If you can't stick with the characters, the canon characters, then write an original story. Don't call it fanfic. Don't use our guys' names. Because these *aren't* our guys. Okay? Just write the story with your own characters - because that's exactly what you're already doing.

Date: 2008-01-06 07:25 pm (UTC)
beckyblack: (Default)
From: [personal profile] beckyblack
Good rant. :D

It seems to me some people take characters to one extreme or another. They are either much nastier than we know them to be, (so we can guess which character the writer doesn't really like) or they become a paragon of virtue. They're idealised with the way women would like men to be, senstive, able to talk about their feelings. They remove any inconvenient sexism, or other old fashioned attitudes.

I'm not sure why they want to make them so idealised. We know they have flaws, we like them anyway. We know they're as insensitve and emotionally repressed as most men, we still like them anyway! All these things make them more interesting to write about anyway.

If a writer doesn't like a character's attitude about something, they should write a story where that's challenged, perhaps the character will even learn to think again about their ideas. But just surgically removing any bad attitudes is cheating.

Date: 2008-01-06 08:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ostarella.livejournal.com
To be totally blunt, (moi?) I think it just boils down to laziness. Either they don't want to work the story so that it's plausible with the canon characters, or they want to write an original and just don't want to develop their own characters. And of course, there are those who are so supremely arrogant they think they can schlock off characterization and everyone will love their story anyway, because everything else is so wonderfully written.

gag...

Date: 2008-01-06 08:12 pm (UTC)
beckyblack: (Default)
From: [personal profile] beckyblack
Could be. And it is hard work! I was sweating a bit today, with Hannibal. (who has a cameo appearence in Part 15 of A Man to Watch.) It was trickier getting his voice right without any of the other team members there, since so much of what we're used to is them interacting. I started getting a handle on it by the end of today, but the first part I wrote will definitely need a fair bit of editing. So even though I think I can normally get them right, there are situations where it's more of a challenge.

Strangely, I didn't have the same problem with Face, when I was writing Tethered Ghost, where he's apart from the team most of the time. Maybe on the show we see more of Face interacting with other people without the rest of the team around, so he's easier.

Date: 2008-01-06 08:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ostarella.livejournal.com
Yeah, Face is relatively easy compared to Hannibal. I think part of that (probably a large part) is we get to see so many different facets of him over the series, whereas Hannibal is not nearly so developed as an individual character. I always have a hard time with Hannibal, because I tend to see the Colonel so much more than Hannibal, and it makes it hard for me to recognize (and write) his more "human" side.

Date: 2008-01-06 08:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] billy-shriner.livejournal.com
You really did need to get this off your chest, and rightly so! This is what LJ is all about! ;o)

I was thinking the other day how even we have some detail/background on BA, with his Mamma. Murdock and Hannibal are hardest in that we don't get much background on those two.

I totally agree though, and I am very happy for someone to tell me if I've got them OOC... as it is hard sometimes to get it right. But I never intentionally write them OOC and I will remember the number one rule! Never, under any circumstances, make them cry!!! ;o)

Oh which reminds me on another note, I was *thinking* of attempting a *slash* fic only as a bit of a joke really, to see if I could keep them as the guys. Its a small plot bunny, that if I get a chance I'll write and share on here. It won't get appreciated on the ATSB ;o) as it will be taking the piss slightly ;O)

Date: 2008-01-06 08:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ostarella.livejournal.com
Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying they can *never* cry - I've had it happen in my own writing. But the circumstances are very important. They aren't going to cry at just anything, and they aren't going to allow it to become a "luxury". When I had Face cry in "Friendship's Choice", it was after literally months of stress and tension, physical and emotional turmoil. And even then, he was embarrassed and tried to put a stopper on it as soon as he could.

I guess my whole point about the crying is that, yes, some men are comfortable with it, and yes, it's a very healthy thing to do - but most men don't want to give in to those emotions. Especially a "man's man" like our guys. They aren't touchy-feely, and they aren't "enlightened" in that way (thank God). So don't write them that way.

I think we should all give a "real" slash story a shot - not only as a challenge to ourselves, but frankly, I think we've got a good enough handle on the guys that we could actually do it "properly". ;-)

Date: 2008-01-06 09:09 pm (UTC)
beckyblack: (Default)
From: [personal profile] beckyblack
Yeah, part of my objection to the crying (in the revised version of the chapter I "submachinegunned") was as much dramatic as about characterisation. It was too soon, like I said, it left nowhere else to go. And heck, aside from that point I liked the rest of it!

I'm trying so hard to think of a slash story now. :D

Date: 2008-01-06 11:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] billy-shriner.livejournal.com
Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying they can *never* cry -

No, I know, there has to be a very good reason. Men do tend to cry less.

Date: 2008-01-06 09:11 pm (UTC)
beckyblack: (Default)
From: [personal profile] beckyblack
I wonder if that's why I've moved more towards focusing on Face the last few long stories, after writing focusing on Hannibal for quite a while. Maybe I've explored as much of Hannibal as I can find, but Face has more potential.

Date: 2008-01-06 09:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ostarella.livejournal.com
I think I'd agree with the potential - Face has so many "personalities", we're never sure which one comes close to the "real" person, plus so many things have happened in his life that set him apart from the mainstream. On the other hand, I love when a writer can "unlock" Hannibal. He has his own kind of potential, I guess - almost like an OC, because we can look at his actions, words and characteristics and more or less decide for ourselves what makes him do it. I think that's one reason why I've tended to "do" BA more than I originally did. I'm finding that, if I push past the facade, and look at the "little things", he's quite a likable, if gruff, character.

Murdock I still have problems with, but I think that's because I've associated the actor with the character too much. But if I look at him with a darker perspective - though not going to the "Dark Murdock" - instead of the happy nut, I do find him more realistic to deal with.

Date: 2008-01-06 09:48 pm (UTC)
beckyblack: (Default)
From: [personal profile] beckyblack
Murdock I still have problems with, but I think that's because I've associated the actor with the character too much.

That can defintely be a danger. Which is one reason I never get heavily into the fandom for the actors, I don't always want to know that much about them, as it colours the interpretation of the character. No wonder I was almost round the bend while Dirk was on Big Brother.

Date: 2008-01-06 09:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ostarella.livejournal.com
"No wonder I was almost round the bend while Dirk was on Big Brother"

Oh, I know. There have been a couple bunnies I've totally discarded because I knew I was getting too "close" to the actor versus the character. Then again, I've met Dirk, so he's "real" now, versus another "image", if that makes sense. So it's much easier for me to recognize and keep the two separate, and I'm much more comfortable knowing I'm actually dealing only with the character. You'd think I could do the same with Murdock, but I think that because I never got a handle on the character before meeting the man, it almost inevitably colors my view of the character.

Date: 2008-01-06 11:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bevimoo.livejournal.com
I think Face also has that extra charisma factor. He's a professional people person, it's literally his living to be all things to all men as it were. Sort of all covered in butter, slippery and pliant and easily insertable. Hmmm, should be careful what I say around you three really, shouldn't I? ;-)

Date: 2008-01-06 11:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ostarella.livejournal.com
Hey, I'm all for easy in...never mind....

Date: 2008-01-06 09:56 pm (UTC)
beckyblack: (Default)
From: [personal profile] beckyblack
Thanks, good article. I'll be studying that some more later. Now, I've got to get to Chapter 9 for you!

Date: 2008-01-06 10:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ostarella.livejournal.com
Well, it's about time! LOL

Hey, I just appreciate you guys checking these over for me. My safety net :-)

Date: 2008-01-06 10:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bevimoo.livejournal.com
Excellent post. :) I haven't written enough to really know how well I do on this, but it is at least something I'm painfully aware of when I'm writing. I love the guys just as they are, and really enjoy trying to get inside their heads, to 'find their voice'. As you say, that's the point of fanfic. As an avid reader of TAT fanfic that has always been one of my major reasons for hitting the back button on my browser.

I agree with you, Star, that some of it is laziness. Often I don't know who these guys are; they use the names of some of my favourite characters but I'm disappointed to read and realise that I don't recognise ANYTHING about them. They are just strangers with familiar names. It's one thing to try to capture something about the characters and not quite get it right, it's entirely another to throw them out altogether.

Oh I have to start writing again, I love these discussions. :)

Date: 2008-01-06 10:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ostarella.livejournal.com
Thanks, first off :-) I, too, love the discussions we have on here. This, to me, is as important as the writing itself - delving into the "grunt work" of writing. I hope, no matter where you're at with the actual writing, you'll continue to take part in the discussions. The more, the merrier!

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