Vindicated

[ostarella]

I left a writing forum over one major issue - the idea of being respectful when giving critiques. It was, basically, the straw that broke the camel's back. My contention (as a beta for several years) that there was absolutely no reason to get nasty or arrogant when giving a critique (and let's be sure to distinguish between a critique and a review). For that, I was labeled (along with anyone else who might hold the same opinion) a 'speshful flower'. (My own betas know that's so far removed from the truth it's laughable. Loudly laughable.) Now, I knew there were others who felt the same way (and who posted thusly in that discussion), but in a recent look-see at another forum, I discovered I was not the only one who left Forum A because of this attitude. Quite a number were so dismayed at the attitude of the other forum they not only left, they wanted to warn others about it.

Now, this is not to say that, after working with someone for some time, one has to be as tactful. With those who really want the honest feedback, it's easy to start jokingly 'bashing' something ("You didn't really write that, did you? :D") or getting more firm ("You need to correct this [continual problem] in future postings or I just can't work on it any more."). Then there are others who just want you to gush over their golden words - and after a point, it's difficult to remain polite, much less tactful. (I told one person sometimes it takes getting hit with a pile of bricks for it to sink in.) But again, this is after you've worked together and gotten to know each other. You don't do those sorts of things on a first post (or even the first couple of posts), or [especially] when the writer is new and genuinely seeking help.

It just is beyond me why writers, of all people, can't seem to figure out how to word a critique without getting arrogant, nasty, or snarky. I mean, that's what we do - use words and phrases to communicate effectively.  So I was left wondering who the 'speshful flowers' really were - those asking for help or those deigning to respond.

So anyway - glad I left one, even gladder (is that a word? lol) that I found the other.

[I'm deliberately not mentioning either forum because I don't want to provoke any snarkiness between the two - anyone interested can pm me. One for a warning and the other for a recommendation.]

Comments

[billy-shriner.livejournal.com]

I know you! And I value your critique! I know you'll tell it as it is, and will help me make my writing better.

I'm sorry if I sometimes still need those bricks thrown at me. But I swear, I really am trying!

[beckyblack]

I think some people do make a big deal about telling it like it is, but get so harsh that they can discourage people. A writer who's new certainly has to learn how to be thick skinned, but they may not yet be ready for a full-on critique. It might make them give up right away, because if they're being told that basically everything they have done is wrong, they're going to think it's too much to fix and give up.

Some people talk as if having a beta is something every writer must have and must have from day one. I don't think that's true. It think it can be something that a writer needs to build up to. I wrote just on my own for at least a year, then got onto the ATSB and from there started working with the bunnies, when I was more ready for more intense crit. I wasn't ready for that right away. I had little enough confidence back then, even constructively worded it would have sent me rushing back into my cave!

[taleya.livejournal.com]

Wow. WTF? Respectful critiques are gold. Methinks the idiots in question are prone to the kneejerk sort of flaming bullshit and don't like being called on it.

There's nothing wrong with helpfully pointing out typos or missing stratas - hell, you can even do it self-deprecatingly ("I might be missing something but how did they get from A to Z?") Like any social interaction, there are things you can say in general conversation, and then there are things you *don't* say unless you know someone very well, especially in a textual format which strips out intent far too often and can be read in a very different way than intended.

Seriously, it's the difference between "This was a bit hard to read - can you please check your paragraph breaks" (or similar) and "JESUS CHRIST WALL OF TEXT". They both mean the same thing, but one is actually a sane response and not a kneejerk /b/tard reaction.