Ch 9 and this and that

[ostarella]

Well, I've gotten two pages written on chapter 9 now. One POV from Dao Quy and one from Hannibal. I was going to work on Face next, and then decided I want to finish all the DQ and Hannibal sections first, then slip Face's POVs in between. I don't usually work that way, but for some reason I want to get a handle on those two first, and then fit Face's stuff to juxtapose them.

One thing I'm discovering about Dao Quy is that I really like her character, and I'm finding myself wishing I was writing a story (ala Tess) about her and Face. I won't be able to have her too much in this story, because that would really be going off on a tangent, and add several really unnecessary chapters, but I might write one of their time together as sort of an addendum.

Speaking of Tess, I think I'm going to use that Character Test for her and the others. Maybe that will get me back on track there as well. Finding that site was really a godsend for this story, I know that.

Oh my. Having quite an email discussion with JFM about slash and characterization, and with Billy on writing as a whole - so enjoyable to be able to speak frankly, and really discuss things. Sometimes I think talking about writing is more interesting than actually writing - writing is WORK!

I'm thinking about going back on the list - just for commenting and discussions. No posting for a while yet. Not until Covenant is completed, at any rate. And not right away - still feeling a little too antagonized, so not a good time for it. But I do miss it.

Comments

[beckyblack]

Oh my. Having quite an email discussion with JFM about slash and characterization, and with Billy on writing as a whole - so enjoyable to be able to speak frankly, and really discuss things. Sometimes I think talking about writing is more interesting than actually writing - writing is WORK!

Heh, I know, and it's distracting me from writing too. :D I'm wrking now, I'm working. No wait, I'm on Live Journal!

but I might write one of their time together as sort of an addendum.

Next thing you know you'll have a spin off series covering years of her life... :D Darn those pesky OCs that bring a load of baggage with them. ;-)

[ostarella.livejournal.com]

Wait til I get back to Randy ;-)

[beckyblack]

Oh, now you've reminded me about him I'm all excited again. :D

[ostarella.livejournal.com]

Now that's a character I *really* like. He's like the dark side of Face without being Dark Face. I've got three more stories planned for that - no outlines or anything, but I know where I want them to go. But I'm definitely waiting for those until I can focus all my energies on them. I figure by the time I get through with Covenant and Tess, it'll be very late this year, maybe early next year. But by then I should have the stories pretty well thought out, so I can just get down to total writing.

Can't wait.

[beckyblack]

He's a great character, I can imagine there's loads to explore with him. Is he one of of those characters that feel as if they are living in your head and telling you his story for you to write? :D

And I knew I was right to hold on and not believe he was dead. ;-)

[ostarella.livejournal.com]

Oh, he definitely wants to tell his story and *his* way LOL I may just use him for my own spin-off series - you certainly seem to be enjoying yours. I think that's when writing really gets the juices flowing - when you find an OC that you just have to hang on to, that demands to stay, doesn't care if *that* story is finished - he's not!

Darn, JFM - now I'm thinking I should drop everything and get back to him! See what you did? ;-)

[beckyblack]

Oh, he definitely wants to tell his story and *his* way LOL I may just use him for my own spin-off series - you certainly seem to be enjoying yours. I think that's when writing really gets the juices flowing - when you find an OC that you just have to hang on to, that demands to stay, doesn't care if *that* story is finished - he's not!

Hah, nicely put! :D The spin off is fun, even though I know only a couple of people are reading it. But it also lets me practice things, try things out, it's teaching me about weaving a story over a very long period of time, and of course about character development over time. I'd never been good with writing strong emotions in characters, always feared being melodramatic, but I've let myself get into that in the spin off, working on how to do it and I do think it's feeding back into the other stories now, they are getting more psychological.

Darn, JFM - now I'm thinking I should drop everything and get back to him! See what you did? ;-)

Oh no, now Billy will whack me if I delay the return of Tess!

[ostarella.livejournal.com]

Aw, no fears - the last thing I want is *two* unfinished stories. Besides, Billy would probably be throwing a whack or two my direction as well! LOL

[billy-shriner.livejournal.com]

Hey it's been fun discussing stuff... I feel, well, quite a newbie to this writing lark, so it's great to talk to pro's like you and JFM ;O)

Oh and I hope this means you'll bring back Tess...now that's a relationship with Face I could handle... because is it or isn't it, will it or won't it? They're the best kind ;P

Hey, writing to me isn't work, it's also fun. I love to chat though...hence why tonight I've got nothing *Work*-wise done ;o)

and it's great to bounce ideas about etc...not so good to do on the ATSB... I know that it probably wouldn't happen, but ideas could get stolen ;o( best to keep it to a small group you trust wholeheartedly...and that will give you an honest opinion...like "WHAT? Don't write THAT!!!" Actually it's JFM and Bevimoo's fault about A Beautiful Lie... they said write it ;O)

[ostarella.livejournal.com]

Now that you mention it - ATSB doesn't do much "bouncing around" of ideas - it's either a specific discussion, or comments on postings, but no "what if I did this?" or "how does this sound?". Almost seems like we're missing the front end of the train, doesn't it?

I will not give up on Tess. It's the only story I've started and never finished, and I don't intend that to stand. She threw me for a loop, and I'll never forgive her for that, but it will be completed. Maybe I'll turn to that after Covenant, and throw it back on the list. ;-)

[beckyblack]

Sounds like the way I feel about Journeys. That was the first one that got put on hold after being started in a serious way. And I can't stand the thought of that! Some people seem happy to start loads of stuff and maybe finish them, maybe not. Leave them for ages, come back and do a bit and leave them again. But I can't do that! I'll finish Journeys if it kills me! :D

I wish there was more idea bouncing on the group. I've found that really helpful in email discussions I've had with Billy and Therm, back when she was into A-Team. She's into other stuff just now.

Heck even just banter on LJ or MSN messenger can get my ideas going.

[ostarella.livejournal.com]

I think, when I first started getting interested in fanfic, I found sooo many unfinished stories out there, it was just maddening. And I swore that if I ever started writing, I would finish every story. Besides, I've left too many things unfinished in my life - writing is not going to be another casualty.

I also wish we could do more brainstorming on the list. It might be something to at least try, see what happens. Sometimes I think it's gotten so people think they have to have something ready to publish before they put it up there, and it shouldn't be that way. It's supposed to be a place for drafts and run-throughs, before actually publishing. At least, that's the way it was when I first signed on. So bouncing around ideas should be an integral part of it.

[beckyblack]

Unfinished ones are maddening like you say. Until Journeys I was proud of my finishing record. :D

Sometimes I think it's gotten so people think they have to have something ready to publish before they put it up there, and it shouldn't be that way.

Definitely not! That's why I've got into the habit of putting first drafts on there and letting people help me knock them into shape. After all in the end, we're not writing for the audience of just the ATSB, but rather the people who read the VA archive, or fanficton.net, or our own sites, however they find the stories. The Yahoo group could use more rough drafts and experiments.

For one thing I think it makes you more open to making changes. If you've spent ages polishing something and everyone tells you that bit doesn't work and you should take it out, well you'd likely resist it, because of all the work you've done to it. But if it's just the draft, then it's a lot easier. You get less "precious" about the work I think.

[ostarella.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's like with chapter 7. Sure, I put a lot of effort into it, but it was an experiment. I thought it worked, and obviously it didn't. But that's why I put it on the list first. But I think the expectation is there, especially on the part of newbies, that it has to be great or near-perfect before they post. Maybe they're afraid of having it picked apart, or maybe they think they aren't supposed to post a rough draft, but I wish someone would bring that up. Much much better to have the problems discovered, or suggestions made, before it's "set in stone", at least in the author's mind.

[beckyblack]

Well, I've gone ahead and suggested the idea of "brainstorming" story ideas and working on the early stages of a story. Let's see what everyone else thinks.

Of course if it takes off it's probably only fair that I put my money where my mouth is and offer up one of my undeveloped bunnies to have its brain stormed. The Ghost of General Stockwell could be a good one, it has a good (I think) hook, but then zippo to follow up. Yet I'm too fond of it to put it on the orphanage for adoption.

[ostarella.livejournal.com]

I see that - be interesting to see if anything happens. I hope it does - it would be nice to "work with" writers from the beginning, watch how something really evolves into a finished work. I definitely think it would be a good way for newbies and lurkers to take that first step.

[billy-shriner.livejournal.com]

I must admit, that's why I put my stories on as WIP. Four Wishes was the first story I actually started to post on the ATSB which wasn't *finished*. But it was a very good motivator to keep me writing.

All my other stories were *finished* as in they had an ending. FWs did to some extent.

I'm not sure I'd be that brave to say, here, what do you think about this bunny...other than throwing a little titbit of a story via a quick pick and seeing it's reaction! ;o)

[ostarella.livejournal.com]

Oddly enough, I have never posted a story to the list that was finished beforehand. In fact, most of them I only had a vague idea of where it was going to go.

Yeah, I'm not sure a bunny would be that big a deal to put on the list - collectively there are thousands out there ;-) But the quick picks, or a general outline of a story - I think those are things that would be far enough along to invite discussion, without really giving away the show ;-)

[beckyblack]

I think with the group while it's frustating if something isn't finished, well it is a work in progress group, not an archive, so you take your chances there with someone not finishing.

Now I had such a hiatus with Journeys I'm even more wary about putting anything on an archive until it's finished at least in first draft form. I do put chapters up on archives as I edit them, that helps keep me going.

[billy-shriner.livejournal.com]

I started making sure I had always *finished* the story, before posting, because that's the way I thought it should be done and I was worried I wouldn't finish it. There are too many stories unfinished!

Anyway, Four Wishes was kinda *finished* in my mind, but not on paper, so it was good to post on the ATSB as a motivator. AND I would never have thought about the ending and Amy's behaviour (without spoiling too much on here, although I think I discussed it on here, for advice.) So now, I am inclined to start posting as I write-ish. I don't think I could do it as JFM does... her nightly output is up on the ATSB.. I've got to seriously read through mine, and make LOTS of corrections first. And then more get spotted on the ATSB ;o)

[ostarella.livejournal.com]

When I first started, I'd seen the WIP designations, so I just assumed the authors were posting as they wrote. Who knows if that were true or not. Now - well, I hate editing my own stories, at least once I've "completed" it enough for posting, and especially as a whole. I might start a new chapter, or have notes for it, but until I know what needs correcting on the current chapter, I don't want to move ahead. I never know when someone will suggest something that I like, and it ends up taking the story in a new direction, or at least, a new route to the ending.

But then, I guess I write differently. I admire JFM's organization and people who can do that, but I write more - "intuitively" ? Not exactly the word I'm looking for; maybe "seat of the pants" would be a more suitable description :D And I guess that mandates "simultaneous" feedback for me. If I completed a story and then saw an idea I liked for an early chapter, I'd probably end up throwing out the balance of the story and going in that new direction. :-/

[billy-shriner.livejournal.com]

Yes it does lack that, but I think, even if it were there, I'm not sure if I'd be that brave to say "here's my plot bunny!"

I've usually bounced things off of JFM, but the other day (actually a few weeks back now), Bevimoo, JFM and I were on MSN *chatting* so we discussed it then.

Again, there's either that fear that someone would say "OMG what the hell possessed you to think of that!" ;o) or worse someone use it (although in my case I very much doubt that happening, my plots aren't THAT original ;o)) I kinda trust a select few, and so if they said, 'yes bin that one, Billy', I'd think, 'okay' ;o) Also though, a smaller group, in a discussion, definitely helps build the plot. Four Wishes plot was built a little on LJ ;o) But it is why I tend to put my stories as WIP on the ATSB. They might be finished, as in they have an ending, but like FW's they still needed a bit of work in the middle ;o)

I hope Tess returns. Don't let her get the better of you. It can always shift a little out of canon, as long as not out of character, and besides, who says they have to fall in love or anything as mushy as that... they can just think about it/realise it, but too afraid to make it happen. Besides, there is something about Tess, but really is she what Face needs? Two wrong-ens don't make a right ;o)

[ostarella.livejournal.com]

Well, as to stealing ideas, I really don't think that's a concern, at least not on the list. Being writers themselves, I think they'd be pretty careful about even doing that unintentionally. Besides, like they say, there are no new ideas - only new ways of presenting them.

A while ago I would have said that no one would come out with the "OMG what the hell possessed you to think of that!" but I've since changed my mind. ;-) But then again, that could happen at any point during posting. And if anyone did, I think I'd be of a mind to ask them what possessed them to be so rude.

No, I don't think Tess and Face would ever fall in love - but that's not to say something less might occur. Depending on what happens in Covenant - who knows? I may become a real Ms Erotica. LOL

[billy-shriner.livejournal.com]

And if anyone did, I think I'd be of a mind to ask them what possessed them to be so rude.

Maybe I'm a born worrier about my plot bunnies then. But I suppose you do have to remember whatever the bunnies, they've come from someone's imagination. It just depends how well written they get, to do them justice!

I think maybe, why we don't discuss plot bunnies on the ATSB is that we want to post the story there, even if it is a WIP, and if it has cliff hangers/twists, we want their effect. Does that make sense? That's why if we do choose to talk about them, we talk to the select few ;o)

...right I really MUST go to bed!

[beckyblack]

Good point about the twists, and I'd personally be inclined not to discuss the ending too much with other people, since there are dangers in talking about a story too much as opposed to telling it, I think.

And some bunnies of course sound so mad that all you can do is trust your instinct and write them and then see what others think, because if you say to them beforehand something like "I see a story where the team are dogs" or "I want to put them in space in the future", to take a couple of random examples ;-), you could get an internet equivalent of a stare of horror and be put off trying it.