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Discussion Two
And another one ;-)
1. What did you like (or dislike) in particular about this episode? What (if anything) about "Dishpan Man" do you think showed the team (individually or as a group) at their best? Or worst?
2. What's with the characterization with this episode? I mean, Face wears a safari jacket and does the driving, Murdock goes scrounging for food, and Hannibal acts like a ditz at the hospital. Musical chairs, anyone?
Putting these two together because they're clearly related for me. ;-)
Frankie, of course, was irritating. He's just the kind of person I would naturally steer clear of. At the same time, he was obviously very loyal to Hannibal, so you have to give him credit for that. He could've just walked away. I think if the writers had played that up a bit more, and toned down the stereotypical Loudmouth Latino, he might have been more palatable.
I was also surprised that BA took Frankie's advice about the gold - like BA wouldn't know how to clean it after all these years. And Face doing his own mechanical work on his car? I'm also surprised that no one on the team was watching out for Hannibal while he was in the hospital. Did the MPs magically disappear?
On the other hand, I did kinda like the airline hostage thing. Frankie was actually useful, and the rest of the guys were right on. I found Stockwell suddenly believing Captain Curtis, when obviously he had checked out the team thoroughly before, rather a slap-dash way of getting the team into military custody.
3. What oddities, plot holes, and/or glitches did you notice in "Dishpan Man"? Any missing scenes or throwaway lines that would be good starters for a story?
As mentioned above, Stockwell was an anamoly - he supposedly had all these resources on hand to investigate the team, but immediately believed Curtis enough to turn them over to the military. And Frankie's father - unless he was in a really chic hospital, Medicare would be paying for his bills and that's not something Stockwell could screw up very easily. At least not easily enough to make it worth doing just to keep Santana as his spy. I mean, Stockwell knew where the guys were going anyway.
5. What about angst? Who would feel it and why?
I think the writers should've worked the Stockwell decision much more. The guys, while reluctant, were a little too willing to accept it. I think a lot of good stuff could've been generated as they thought about what it would mean to the team and to them individually.
7. How has "Dishpan Man" influenced canon and fanon?
I don't know that this ep by itself had that much influence. More as a part of S5's overall influence, which unfortunately gave us a really Evil Stockwell and a choice of Evil Frankie or Bumbling Idiot Frankie, and I don't think any of those are really accurate. On the other hand, it did move us back to the team as SF, which was a welcome relief.
8. Any ideas for a better title for this episode?
"Déjà Vu", "Square One" - frankly, anything but the original. ;-)
2. What's with the characterization with this episode? I mean, Face wears a safari jacket and does the driving, Murdock goes scrounging for food, and Hannibal acts like a ditz at the hospital. Musical chairs, anyone?
Putting these two together because they're clearly related for me. ;-)
Frankie, of course, was irritating. He's just the kind of person I would naturally steer clear of. At the same time, he was obviously very loyal to Hannibal, so you have to give him credit for that. He could've just walked away. I think if the writers had played that up a bit more, and toned down the stereotypical Loudmouth Latino, he might have been more palatable.
I was also surprised that BA took Frankie's advice about the gold - like BA wouldn't know how to clean it after all these years. And Face doing his own mechanical work on his car? I'm also surprised that no one on the team was watching out for Hannibal while he was in the hospital. Did the MPs magically disappear?
On the other hand, I did kinda like the airline hostage thing. Frankie was actually useful, and the rest of the guys were right on. I found Stockwell suddenly believing Captain Curtis, when obviously he had checked out the team thoroughly before, rather a slap-dash way of getting the team into military custody.
3. What oddities, plot holes, and/or glitches did you notice in "Dishpan Man"? Any missing scenes or throwaway lines that would be good starters for a story?
As mentioned above, Stockwell was an anamoly - he supposedly had all these resources on hand to investigate the team, but immediately believed Curtis enough to turn them over to the military. And Frankie's father - unless he was in a really chic hospital, Medicare would be paying for his bills and that's not something Stockwell could screw up very easily. At least not easily enough to make it worth doing just to keep Santana as his spy. I mean, Stockwell knew where the guys were going anyway.
5. What about angst? Who would feel it and why?
I think the writers should've worked the Stockwell decision much more. The guys, while reluctant, were a little too willing to accept it. I think a lot of good stuff could've been generated as they thought about what it would mean to the team and to them individually.
7. How has "Dishpan Man" influenced canon and fanon?
I don't know that this ep by itself had that much influence. More as a part of S5's overall influence, which unfortunately gave us a really Evil Stockwell and a choice of Evil Frankie or Bumbling Idiot Frankie, and I don't think any of those are really accurate. On the other hand, it did move us back to the team as SF, which was a welcome relief.
8. Any ideas for a better title for this episode?
"Déjà Vu", "Square One" - frankly, anything but the original. ;-)
no subject
Murdock and Stockwell - that's a puzzle in and of itself. I might state, right now, that I did not care for Murdock during most of this season. Too much of that CIA crapola, I think. And he lost his fun. But I'll save the diatribe on that for later eps...But what Stockwell had in mind for him here...definitely a plot hole for us writers, because I think the show's writers just dropped the ball, made things too convoluted even for them to figure out.
no subject
Yeah, it's probably a simple answer like that. Or that Colonel Morales helped him out without too many questions. Or maybe he repaired his autogyro and flew that home. Of course he'd have so many refuelling stops he'd have to go overland most of the way, so that would be up to the far end of the Soveiet Union, then just pray he had the fuel to make it across the Bering Straits to Alaska. ;-)
because I think the show's writers just dropped the ball, made things too convoluted even for them to figure out.
I'm pretty certain that's the case! It's a fun twist to have Curtis accuse them, but the whole setup doesn't stand up to scrutiny.