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Discussion Two
And another one ;-)
1. What did you like (or dislike) in particular about this episode? What (if anything) about "Dishpan Man" do you think showed the team (individually or as a group) at their best? Or worst?
2. What's with the characterization with this episode? I mean, Face wears a safari jacket and does the driving, Murdock goes scrounging for food, and Hannibal acts like a ditz at the hospital. Musical chairs, anyone?
Putting these two together because they're clearly related for me. ;-)
Frankie, of course, was irritating. He's just the kind of person I would naturally steer clear of. At the same time, he was obviously very loyal to Hannibal, so you have to give him credit for that. He could've just walked away. I think if the writers had played that up a bit more, and toned down the stereotypical Loudmouth Latino, he might have been more palatable.
I was also surprised that BA took Frankie's advice about the gold - like BA wouldn't know how to clean it after all these years. And Face doing his own mechanical work on his car? I'm also surprised that no one on the team was watching out for Hannibal while he was in the hospital. Did the MPs magically disappear?
On the other hand, I did kinda like the airline hostage thing. Frankie was actually useful, and the rest of the guys were right on. I found Stockwell suddenly believing Captain Curtis, when obviously he had checked out the team thoroughly before, rather a slap-dash way of getting the team into military custody.
3. What oddities, plot holes, and/or glitches did you notice in "Dishpan Man"? Any missing scenes or throwaway lines that would be good starters for a story?
As mentioned above, Stockwell was an anamoly - he supposedly had all these resources on hand to investigate the team, but immediately believed Curtis enough to turn them over to the military. And Frankie's father - unless he was in a really chic hospital, Medicare would be paying for his bills and that's not something Stockwell could screw up very easily. At least not easily enough to make it worth doing just to keep Santana as his spy. I mean, Stockwell knew where the guys were going anyway.
5. What about angst? Who would feel it and why?
I think the writers should've worked the Stockwell decision much more. The guys, while reluctant, were a little too willing to accept it. I think a lot of good stuff could've been generated as they thought about what it would mean to the team and to them individually.
7. How has "Dishpan Man" influenced canon and fanon?
I don't know that this ep by itself had that much influence. More as a part of S5's overall influence, which unfortunately gave us a really Evil Stockwell and a choice of Evil Frankie or Bumbling Idiot Frankie, and I don't think any of those are really accurate. On the other hand, it did move us back to the team as SF, which was a welcome relief.
8. Any ideas for a better title for this episode?
"Déjà Vu", "Square One" - frankly, anything but the original. ;-)
2. What's with the characterization with this episode? I mean, Face wears a safari jacket and does the driving, Murdock goes scrounging for food, and Hannibal acts like a ditz at the hospital. Musical chairs, anyone?
Putting these two together because they're clearly related for me. ;-)
Frankie, of course, was irritating. He's just the kind of person I would naturally steer clear of. At the same time, he was obviously very loyal to Hannibal, so you have to give him credit for that. He could've just walked away. I think if the writers had played that up a bit more, and toned down the stereotypical Loudmouth Latino, he might have been more palatable.
I was also surprised that BA took Frankie's advice about the gold - like BA wouldn't know how to clean it after all these years. And Face doing his own mechanical work on his car? I'm also surprised that no one on the team was watching out for Hannibal while he was in the hospital. Did the MPs magically disappear?
On the other hand, I did kinda like the airline hostage thing. Frankie was actually useful, and the rest of the guys were right on. I found Stockwell suddenly believing Captain Curtis, when obviously he had checked out the team thoroughly before, rather a slap-dash way of getting the team into military custody.
3. What oddities, plot holes, and/or glitches did you notice in "Dishpan Man"? Any missing scenes or throwaway lines that would be good starters for a story?
As mentioned above, Stockwell was an anamoly - he supposedly had all these resources on hand to investigate the team, but immediately believed Curtis enough to turn them over to the military. And Frankie's father - unless he was in a really chic hospital, Medicare would be paying for his bills and that's not something Stockwell could screw up very easily. At least not easily enough to make it worth doing just to keep Santana as his spy. I mean, Stockwell knew where the guys were going anyway.
5. What about angst? Who would feel it and why?
I think the writers should've worked the Stockwell decision much more. The guys, while reluctant, were a little too willing to accept it. I think a lot of good stuff could've been generated as they thought about what it would mean to the team and to them individually.
7. How has "Dishpan Man" influenced canon and fanon?
I don't know that this ep by itself had that much influence. More as a part of S5's overall influence, which unfortunately gave us a really Evil Stockwell and a choice of Evil Frankie or Bumbling Idiot Frankie, and I don't think any of those are really accurate. On the other hand, it did move us back to the team as SF, which was a welcome relief.
8. Any ideas for a better title for this episode?
"Déjà Vu", "Square One" - frankly, anything but the original. ;-)
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But I think Stockwell was behind the lot (the hijacking is maybe not, maybe, - maybe he just got lucky) - so that he could get them into a trial, rescue them out of it, and then have a hold over them, to do his dirty work.
If he'd just gone up to them, as it was, Hannibal would never have worked for him. He needed something over them, and a carrot to dangle just in front of them, to guarantee they'd work for him.
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Don't tell me he doesn't know about Murdock. At the very least Frankie likely told him. And then there's the people at the jet when they fly to Spain, and the pilot(s) of the plane. Stockwell knows Murdock is there. Yet he takes the others and leaves him behind. Does he not want to compromise Murdock's position at the VA? Does he want Murdock free for a reason? To help the team escape? If the escape is a test for the team, is it also a test for Murdock? Yet Stockwell also tries to keep Murdock away once they are at Langley, so does he want him with the team or not?
And how the hell does Murdock get home from Spain? Does he have his passport? Money? Don't say he swiped a plane. From Spain to the US? He'd have to swipe a 747 to get there without refuelling, and I can't see that happening. But a small plane needs refuelling, how would he manage that?
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That's what convinces me it's all a set up. Stockwell wouldn't care is they robbed the bank for themselves. He wouldn't care if they killed Morrison. He doesn't hand them over out of any kind of moral outrage. He can't even keep the smug smile off his face when he's saying it. He hands them over to get them where he wants them in the end, under his control.
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